[CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree establishment

Thu Jun 10 14:07:10 EDT 2021

Dear Jack, I would love a copy of the PDF.  Thanks!

Polly Wells 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 10, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Jack Radecki via CANUFNET <canufnet at list.web.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested “The ABC’s of Successful Tree Planting” was published in the Landscape Trades in the year 2000. I have a pdf copy for anyone that is interested. Send me an email.
>  
> Best Jack Radecki
>  
> From: CANUFNET <canufnet-bounces at list.web.net> On Behalf Of Peter Shields via CANUFNET
> Sent: June 8, 2021 3:05 PM
> To: Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>; stephen at ufora.ca
> Cc: Peter Shields <peter.shields1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree establishment
>  
> Landscape Ontario has a fantastic tree planting guide available for a free download.
>  
> No controversy, just great guidance and information!
>  
> Peter Shields
> ISA Board Certified Master Arborist ON-0570B, TRAQ
> 
> ASCA Registered Consulting Arborist #536
> 
> www.shieldstree.com
> 
> (705) 500-4860
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
>  
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "C. Kavassalis via CANUFNET" <canufnet at list.web.net>
> Date: 2021-06-08 12:30 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
> To: stephen at ufora.ca
> Cc: "C. Kavassalis" <c.kavassalis at gmail.com>, Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
> Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree establishment
>  
> That is very helpful. My reading has suggested some controversy here,
> and as with most nurseries will not guarantee trees that have had the
> B&B removed, we will continue to advise respecting nurseries planting
> guidelines.
> Thank you very much for your insights.
> Catherine Kavassalis
> mgoi.ca
> 
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:47 PM <stephen at ufora.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Hello.
> >
> > I have always agreed with what Linda C-S says in her factsheets, but on this topic we differ.  I do recommend loosening or pruning circling roots on container grown trees if it can be done without killing the plant (as Dr. Ed Gilman recommends, he's the authority on the topic).  I wouldn't take the soil off a B&B plant if I didn't have to, but will always take off the burlap and ties.
> >
> > If you are concerned about inner roots circling that can't be seen from the outside of the ball of a wire-basket, then maybe you should take off the soil as she recommends. I correct the roots I can see from the outside but not more than that.  In the times when I've taken an entire WB root ball apart it's usually because the tree died and I want to see why.  I mostly find short straight roots inside that are not circling or twisted up, so the tree didn't die from root form problems.
> >
> > B&B plants have the most intact root system of all the plant package types you can buy (once you cut the circling roots off the container-grown ones you have less, and they're not grown in natural soil, it's a soilless mix) and they are in the soil the plant was grown in, a near ideal situation.  Bare-rooting is fine if trees are grown that way or have to be taken out of containers and opened up to correct root defects, but if I could get everything as a B&B I'd be happy. I hardly ever lose B&B plants if they are dug with a good sized root ball, and I never have to worry about circling roots.
> >
> > I can't say I've ever encountered problems with different soils in the ball vs the planting site being a constraint. It's not a problem if you plant and care for the plant properly after. Most of our soils here in Toronto are clays or silts so the nursery soils match the planting sites fairly well most of the time. It's more of a problem with trees grown in soilless potting mixes planted into clay sites like a big plug without removing the circling roots first.
> >
> > Stephen Smith
> > Urban Forest Associates
> > Urban Forestry & Ecological Restoration
> > www.ufora.ca
> > Office/fax 416-423-3387
> > Cell 416-707-2164
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C. Kavassalis <c.kavassalis at gmail.com>
> > Sent: June 7, 2021 7:48 PM
> > To: Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
> > Cc: stephen at ufora.ca
> > Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree establishment
> >
> > Thank you for your comments and observations.
> >
> > As Master Gardeners, we typically provide advice for members of the gardening public who do understand the need to care for trees as they establish. So we currently recommend the use of smaller seedlings for ease of handling and faster establishment. But your provisos about deer and rabbit predation are really good to note.
> >
> > How do you feel about root washing larger ball and burlap stock to correct root defects as Dr. Chalker-Scott advises:
> > https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/bb-root-balls.pdf
> >
> > Thank you.
> > Catherine Kavassalis
> > MGOI.ca
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 9:23 AM Stephen Smith via CANUFNET <canufnet at list.web.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > This topic is complicated.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Smaller stock will produce healthy trees in the long run at the lowest cost as has been noted in these discussions and the research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But it can also be a question of time and money – are you willing to wait 10 years to get a tree to a size that you could plant today?  Will you take care of the little tree – weeding, watering, keeping the animals and kids from destroying it? Investing significant money in a larger tree can also be an inducement to care for it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Getting the client or a municipality to accept a seedling instead of a 50mm caliper deciduous tree/175cm conifer is often difficult. It’s also easier for a little one to quietly disappear on a weekend, and nobody will notice if the client really doesn’t want a tree there anyway.  Deer or rabbits can eat the small ones, and they can be covered by weeds and vines in the early years. Some municipalities are opting for deciduous trees about 200cm tall and conifers 100cm tall as the best compromise between the two sizes. This means container-grown stock which will have problems with circling roots, but this is another topic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On my own lawn I have a white oak that was planted as a 60mm wire basket tree in 1999, about 2.5m tall at planting.  Two years later I planted a black oak seedling 30cm tall a few feet away.  Treating both exactly the same with water and fertilizer regularly the black oak caught up to the white in height in 7 years but still hasn’t caught up in diameter.  The black is 33cm DBH and 11m tall, and the white is 34cm DBH and 10m tall today.  Both ways worked, with care, but the timing was different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stephen Smith
> > >
> > > Urban Forest Associates
> > >
> > > Urban Forestry & Ecological Restoration
> > >
> > > www.ufora.ca
> > >
> > > Office/fax 416-423-3387
> > >
> > > Cell 416-707-2164
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: CANUFNET <canufnet-bounces at list.web.net> On Behalf Of Mark
> > > Carroll via CANUFNET
> > > Sent: June 3, 2021 9:13 PM
> > > To: Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
> > > Cc: Mark Carroll <environment1st at rogers.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree
> > > establishment
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As  Municipal Arborist in charge of planting street trees and planting seedlings within natural zones I can emphatically say that planting smaller trees will increase survival rates. I have many examples where small planted trees have survived and even surpassed the growth of nearby larger planted trees, if this makes sense.
> > >
> > > Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu., 3 Jun. 2021 at 1:55 p.m., C. Kavassalis via CANUFNET
> > >
> > > <canufnet at list.web.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > What is the current understanding of the influence of tree size on
> > >
> > > transplant establishment and growth?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a Master Gardener, I would like to make sound recommendations to
> > >
> > > the public regarding caliper size and age of trees for best long term
> > >
> > > results based on up-to-date research. My current understanding is
> > >
> > > based on a 15 year old study by Watson concluding that smaller trees
> > >
> > > establish more quickly and result in larger trees. Does this still
> > >
> > > reflect best practice?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Watson, W.. (2005). Influence of Tree Size on Transplant Establishment
> > >
> > > and Growth. HortTechnology. 15. 10.21273/HORTTECH.15.1.0118.
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237555899_Infl_uence_of_Tree_
> > > Size_on_Transplant_Establishment_and_Growth
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > > Cathy Kavassalis
> > >
> > > Master Gardeners of Ontario
> > >
> > >
> >
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