[CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree establishment

Fri Jun 11 08:39:04 EDT 2021

Thanks.  I would love a copy.

Ross

On Thu., Jun. 10, 2021, 9:20 a.m. Jack Radecki via CANUFNET, <
canufnet at list.web.net> wrote:

> If anyone is interested “The ABC’s of Successful Tree Planting” was
> published in the Landscape Trades in the year 2000. I have a pdf copy for
> anyone that is interested. Send me an email.
>
>
>
> Best Jack Radecki
>
>
>
> *From:* CANUFNET <canufnet-bounces at list.web.net> *On Behalf Of *Peter
> Shields via CANUFNET
> *Sent:* June 8, 2021 3:05 PM
> *To:* Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>;
> stephen at ufora.ca
> *Cc:* Peter Shields <peter.shields1 at hotmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree
> establishment
>
>
>
> Landscape Ontario has a fantastic tree planting guide available for a free
> download.
>
>
>
> No controversy, just great guidance and information!
>
>
>
> *Peter Shields*
> ISA Board Certified Master Arborist ON-0570B, TRAQ
>
> ASCA Registered Consulting Arborist #536
>
> www.shieldstree.com
>
> (705) 500-4860
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: "C. Kavassalis via CANUFNET" <canufnet at list.web.net>
>
> Date: 2021-06-08 12:30 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: stephen at ufora.ca
>
> Cc: "C. Kavassalis" <c.kavassalis at gmail.com>, Canadian Urban Forest
> Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
>
> Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree establishment
>
>
>
> That is very helpful. My reading has suggested some controversy here,
> and as with most nurseries will not guarantee trees that have had the
> B&B removed, we will continue to advise respecting nurseries planting
> guidelines.
> Thank you very much for your insights.
> Catherine Kavassalis
> mgoi.ca
>
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:47 PM <stephen at ufora.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Hello.
> >
> > I have always agreed with what Linda C-S says in her factsheets, but on
> this topic we differ.  I do recommend loosening or pruning circling roots
> on container grown trees if it can be done without killing the plant (as
> Dr. Ed Gilman recommends, he's the authority on the topic).  I wouldn't
> take the soil off a B&B plant if I didn't have to, but will always take off
> the burlap and ties.
> >
> > If you are concerned about inner roots circling that can't be seen from
> the outside of the ball of a wire-basket, then maybe you should take off
> the soil as she recommends. I correct the roots I can see from the outside
> but not more than that.  In the times when I've taken an entire WB root
> ball apart it's usually because the tree died and I want to see why.  I
> mostly find short straight roots inside that are not circling or twisted
> up, so the tree didn't die from root form problems.
> >
> > B&B plants have the most intact root system of all the plant package
> types you can buy (once you cut the circling roots off the container-grown
> ones you have less, and they're not grown in natural soil, it's a soilless
> mix) and they are in the soil the plant was grown in, a near ideal
> situation.  Bare-rooting is fine if trees are grown that way or have to be
> taken out of containers and opened up to correct root defects, but if I
> could get everything as a B&B I'd be happy. I hardly ever lose B&B plants
> if they are dug with a good sized root ball, and I never have to worry
> about circling roots.
> >
> > I can't say I've ever encountered problems with different soils in the
> ball vs the planting site being a constraint. It's not a problem if you
> plant and care for the plant properly after. Most of our soils here in
> Toronto are clays or silts so the nursery soils match the planting sites
> fairly well most of the time. It's more of a problem with trees grown in
> soilless potting mixes planted into clay sites like a big plug without
> removing the circling roots first.
> >
> > Stephen Smith
> > Urban Forest Associates
> > Urban Forestry & Ecological Restoration
> > www.ufora.ca
> > Office/fax 416-423-3387
> > Cell 416-707-2164
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C. Kavassalis <c.kavassalis at gmail.com>
> > Sent: June 7, 2021 7:48 PM
> > To: Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
> > Cc: stephen at ufora.ca
> > Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree
> establishment
> >
> > Thank you for your comments and observations.
> >
> > As Master Gardeners, we typically provide advice for members of the
> gardening public who do understand the need to care for trees as they
> establish. So we currently recommend the use of smaller seedlings for ease
> of handling and faster establishment. But your provisos about deer and
> rabbit predation are really good to note.
> >
> > How do you feel about root washing larger ball and burlap stock to
> correct root defects as Dr. Chalker-Scott advises:
> > https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/bb-root-balls.pdf
> >
> > Thank you.
> > Catherine Kavassalis
> > MGOI.ca
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 9:23 AM Stephen Smith via CANUFNET <
> canufnet at list.web.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > This topic is complicated.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Smaller stock will produce healthy trees in the long run at the lowest
> cost as has been noted in these discussions and the research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But it can also be a question of time and money – are you willing to
> wait 10 years to get a tree to a size that you could plant today?  Will you
> take care of the little tree – weeding, watering, keeping the animals and
> kids from destroying it? Investing significant money in a larger tree can
> also be an inducement to care for it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Getting the client or a municipality to accept a seedling instead of a
> 50mm caliper deciduous tree/175cm conifer is often difficult. It’s also
> easier for a little one to quietly disappear on a weekend, and nobody will
> notice if the client really doesn’t want a tree there anyway.  Deer or
> rabbits can eat the small ones, and they can be covered by weeds and vines
> in the early years. Some municipalities are opting for deciduous trees
> about 200cm tall and conifers 100cm tall as the best compromise between the
> two sizes. This means container-grown stock which will have problems with
> circling roots, but this is another topic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On my own lawn I have a white oak that was planted as a 60mm wire
> basket tree in 1999, about 2.5m tall at planting.  Two years later I
> planted a black oak seedling 30cm tall a few feet away.  Treating both
> exactly the same with water and fertilizer regularly the black oak caught
> up to the white in height in 7 years but still hasn’t caught up in
> diameter.  The black is 33cm DBH and 11m tall, and the white is 34cm DBH
> and 10m tall today.  Both ways worked, with care, but the timing was
> different.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stephen Smith
> > >
> > > Urban Forest Associates
> > >
> > > Urban Forestry & Ecological Restoration
> > >
> > > www.ufora.ca
> > >
> > > Office/fax 416-423-3387
> > >
> > > Cell 416-707-2164
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: CANUFNET <canufnet-bounces at list.web.net> On Behalf Of Mark
> > > Carroll via CANUFNET
> > > Sent: June 3, 2021 9:13 PM
> > > To: Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
> > > Cc: Mark Carroll <environment1st at rogers.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] Inquiry regarding tree size and tree
> > > establishment
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As  Municipal Arborist in charge of planting street trees and planting
> seedlings within natural zones I can emphatically say that planting smaller
> trees will increase survival rates. I have many examples where small
> planted trees have survived and even surpassed the growth of nearby larger
> planted trees, if this makes sense.
> > >
> > > Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu., 3 Jun. 2021 at 1:55 p.m., C. Kavassalis via CANUFNET
> > >
> > > <canufnet at list.web.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > What is the current understanding of the influence of tree size on
> > >
> > > transplant establishment and growth?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a Master Gardener, I would like to make sound recommendations to
> > >
> > > the public regarding caliper size and age of trees for best long term
> > >
> > > results based on up-to-date research. My current understanding is
> > >
> > > based on a 15 year old study by Watson concluding that smaller trees
> > >
> > > establish more quickly and result in larger trees. Does this still
> > >
> > > reflect best practice?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Watson, W.. (2005). Influence of Tree Size on Transplant Establishment
> > >
> > > and Growth. HortTechnology. 15. 10.21273/HORTTECH.15.1.0118.
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237555899_Infl_uence_of_Tree_
> > > Size_on_Transplant_Establishment_and_Growth
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > > Cathy Kavassalis
> > >
> > > Master Gardeners of Ontario
> > >
> > >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://list.web.net/pipermail/canufnet/attachments/20210611/0b7d1492/attachment.htm>