[CANUFNET] CANUFNET Digest, Vol 66, Issue 8

Wed Jun 16 17:33:34 EDT 2010

Hey Vince,

In regard to if I have recommended removal of trees based on species,
yes; but it depends on the situation and the tree.

In regard to this particular case of the poplars, I was thinking if
maybe you conduct a formal hazard tree assessment and see what the
result is.  The resident that wants the tree removed would have the
assessment completed.  If the Tree hazard Evaluation Form results in the
tree being a hazard this could be brought to the tree owners attention
and therefore a reason to remove the tree.  If the tree is considered a
hazard and they do not remove it, it could lead to future legal matters
of course.

If the tree is NOT considered a hazard (as it sounds like it is in good
condition) then:

1) on the side of getting the tree removed, maybe providing the tree
owner with information about the tree; i.e typical life span of this
species and tree characteristics like diffuse-porous wood (weak wood),
co-domin stems = included bark = possibility of stem failure, pollen
allergies?... this information may result in the tree owner wanting the
tree removed... with option of native tree replacement of course.
Or
2) on the side of trying to retain the tree; providing to the
neighbor/client that wants the tree removed that the tree is not
considered a hazard and to stop asking for the tree to be removed and
just live with having the tree routinely pruned to prevent falling
limbs.

Sounds like an awesome huge tree though.  T.bay represent ; )

Jennifer Koskinen, HBESfcon
ISA Certified Arborist ON-1234A
Stantec
49 Frederick Street
Kitchener ON N2H 6M7
Ph: (519) 585-7442
Fx:  (519) 579-7932
jennifer.koskinen at stantec.com
www.stantec.com

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-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:37 PM
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Subject: CANUFNET Digest, Vol 66, Issue 8

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: hybrid poplar tree hazard (Listar, Ivan)
   2. Re: hybrid poplar tree hazard (pwynnyczuk at richmondhill.ca)
   3. Re: hybrid poplar tree hazard (Stephen Smith)
   4. Re: hybrid poplar tree hazard (Menounos, Kim)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:12:28 -0400
From: "Listar, Ivan" <ilistar at london.ca>
Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard
To: "Canadian Urban Forest Network" <canufnet at list.web.net>
Message-ID: <AD3CBE3FB0538D42A2029F3A819C1799175C06 at clexch02.col>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We just added Paulownia (aka Empress tree, Princess tree) and buckthorn
species to our list of prohibited species on City property this spring
because of their characteristics.   There are people who want to
establish the Empress tree in southern Ontario and buckthorn is an
invasive species.  Our Boulevard Tree Protection By-law allows us to
remove prohibited species from City property without notification to the
adjacent residents.  We have other prohibited species as well.
Unfortunately we do not have a private tree by-law to keep them from
getting established on private property.  Our Property Standards by-law
is used to enforce the removal of trees, regardless of species, once
they become a hazard. 

Ivan Listar, R.P.F. 
Urban Forester, City of London 
A.J. Tyler Operations Centre 
663 Bathurst St. 
London, Ont.  N5Z 1P8 
Phone: 519-661-2500 ext. 4977 
mailto:ilistar at london.ca 
fax: 519-661-2352 

________________________________

From: canufnet-bounces at list.web.net
[mailto:canufnet-bounces at list.web.net] On Behalf Of Vince Rutter
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:53 AM
To: Canadian Urban Forest Network
Subject: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard

A client's neighbour owns two large hybrid poplar (similar to
cottonwood) trees that overhang his property.  They are healthy
vigourous trees, both with many codominant stems and are quite large (2
metre DBH).  That's pretty big for here in Thunder Bay!  Over the past
several years there have been many occasions where branches have snapped
and fallen which is typical of the species.  The branches are anywhere
from 2 inches to 5 or 6 in diameter.  They are truly concerned about the
tree and would like to compel the owners to take action.
At best, we could clean the crown, reduce long branches and support
included branch connections by cabling but I don't feel that would
greatly reduce the risk of occasional limb breakage.  That said, have
any of you condemned a tree based on its species characteristics like
these poplars?  
This problem comes up fairly frequently here and it usually leads to
tree removal but in this case all parties involved can't come to an
agreement.  

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
Vince Rutter, RPF
ISA Certified Arborist
www.rutterurbanforestry.ca
807-627-6201

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:06:14 -0400
From: pwynnyczuk at richmondhill.ca
Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard
To: Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
Message-ID:

<OF00A81EE9.2C7DB342-ON85257744.0057A7F3-85257744.00587921 at richmondhill.
ca>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

If the limbs are shed randomly, ie., no wind, only in summer, or no 
evidence of decay, at one time I remember a comment related to Poplars, 
particularly Carolina Poplar, Populus canadensis, in terms of moisture 
levels in the wood affecting structural soundness.
Rapid changes in weather,  wet to dry and vice versa can lead to 
significant fluctuation in the wood cell size. If there are preexisting 
weak points in the limbs,  these are magnified over time until breakage.

Any one have similar information?

Regards,
Peter Wynnyczuk

Urban Forestry Supervisor
Town of Richmond Hill
Community Service Department
Telephone:  905 780-2930
Fax:  905 780 -2928
Internet: pwynnyczuk at richmondhill.ca

From:
Vince Rutter <vince at rutterurbanforestry.ca>
To:
Canadian Urban Forest Network <canufnet at list.web.net>
Date:
06/16/2010 11:43 AM
Subject:
[CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard
Sent by:
canufnet-bounces at list.web.net

A client's neighbour owns two large hybrid poplar (similar to
cottonwood) 
trees that overhang his property.  They are healthy vigourous trees,
both 
with many codominant stems and are quite large (2 metre DBH).  That's 
pretty big for here in Thunder Bay!  Over the past several years there 
have been many occasions where branches have snapped and fallen which is

typical of the species.  The branches are anywhere from 2 inches to 5 or
6 
in diameter.  They are truly concerned about the tree and would like to 
compel the owners to take action.
At best, we could clean the crown, reduce long branches and support 
included branch connections by cabling but I don't feel that would
greatly 
reduce the risk of occasional limb breakage.  That said, have any of you

condemned a tree based on its species characteristics like these
poplars?  

This problem comes up fairly frequently here and it usually leads to
tree 
removal but in this case all parties involved can't come to an
agreement.  

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
-- 
Vince Rutter, RPF
ISA Certified Arborist
www.rutterurbanforestry.ca
807-627-6201
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:28:13 -0400
From: "Stephen Smith" <ufora at idirect.com>
Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard
To: "Canadian Urban Forest Network" <canufnet at list.web.net>
Message-ID: <AC422827406F4070AB180BF81ED9305E at UforaMain3>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I wouldn't condemn a tree just because of risk that something might/will
happen sometime in the future based on species alone. It has to
demonstrate an imminent risk of failure now. 

That said, I wouldn't recommend planting them if I know of these
characteristics, subject to other goals for planting that might be more
important at the time.

If I want to remove one because of species, say a large Manitoba maple
because it's an invasive species, I will remove it on that basis not
future presumed risk, even if it has future risk of failure too but
isn't imminent now. If your municipality doesn't make allowances for
invasive species or other reasons for removal than imminent hazard, then
it might get more complicated.

Stephen Smith
Urban Forest Associates Inc.
Urban Forestry and Ecological Restoration
www.ufora.ca
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Vince Rutter 
  To: Canadian Urban Forest Network 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:52 AM
  Subject: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard

  A client's neighbour owns two large hybrid poplar (similar to
cottonwood) trees that overhang his property.  They are healthy
vigourous trees, both with many codominant stems and are quite large (2
metre DBH).  That's pretty big for here in Thunder Bay!  Over the past
several years there have been many occasions where branches have snapped
and fallen which is typical of the species.  The branches are anywhere
from 2 inches to 5 or 6 in diameter.  They are truly concerned about the
tree and would like to compel the owners to take action.
  At best, we could clean the crown, reduce long branches and support
included branch connections by cabling but I don't feel that would
greatly reduce the risk of occasional limb breakage.  That said, have
any of you condemned a tree based on its species characteristics like
these poplars?  
  This problem comes up fairly frequently here and it usually leads to
tree removal but in this case all parties involved can't come to an
agreement.  

  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
  -- 
  Vince Rutter, RPF
  ISA Certified Arborist
  www.rutterurbanforestry.ca
  807-627-6201
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:22:38 -0700
From: "Menounos, Kim" <kmenounos at city.pg.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard
To: 'Canadian Urban Forest Network' <canufnet at list.web.net>
Message-ID:
	<FFEA615C5F697646A14031F014DB343D2CCB50DCBA at mail.city.pg.bc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We are constantly in the same philosophical debate about Cottonwood
trees in a local park. The trees are very large (same latitude as
Thunder Bay!) and old.  There are no residents close by, so it's a much
lower risk.

The reason I am weighing in is just to mention that these trees appear
to get to a point/age when their limbs become a hazard from falling. It
isn't predictable, ie. only after a windstorm, and they are huge! We can
manage this risk because their benefit to the local riparian ecosystem
is important and the visitors to the park are less frequent. However, I
personally would not want to bear the risk of one of these trees on my
private property for this very reason! The context has to be part of the
discussion. Is the property/tree owner going to be able to predict when
a large limb is going to fall (and they will continue to fall because of
the species) and be able to mitigate the hazard by having an arborist in
in time to keep someone from being hurt?

Kim Menounos, RPF
City of Prince George

From: canufnet-bounces at list.web.net
[mailto:canufnet-bounces at list.web.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Smith
Sent: June 16, 2010 9:28 AM
To: Canadian Urban Forest Network
Subject: Re: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard

I wouldn't condemn a tree just because of risk that something might/will
happen sometime in the future based on species alone. It has to
demonstrate an imminent risk of failure now.

That said, I wouldn't recommend planting them if I know of these
characteristics, subject to other goals for planting that might be more
important at the time.

If I want to remove one because of species, say a large Manitoba maple
because it's an invasive species, I will remove it on that basis not
future presumed risk, even if it has future risk of failure too but
isn't imminent now. If your municipality doesn't make allowances for
invasive species or other reasons for removal than imminent hazard, then
it might get more complicated.

Stephen Smith
Urban Forest Associates Inc.
Urban Forestry and Ecological Restoration
www.ufora.ca<http://www.ufora.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Rutter<mailto:vince at rutterurbanforestry.ca>
To: Canadian Urban Forest Network<mailto:canufnet at list.web.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:52 AM
Subject: [CANUFNET] hybrid poplar tree hazard

A client's neighbour owns two large hybrid poplar (similar to
cottonwood) trees that overhang his property.  They are healthy
vigourous trees, both with many codominant stems and are quite large (2
metre DBH).  That's pretty big for here in Thunder Bay!  Over the past
several years there have been many occasions where branches have snapped
and fallen which is typical of the species.  The branches are anywhere
from 2 inches to 5 or 6 in diameter.  They are truly concerned about the
tree and would like to compel the owners to take action.
At best, we could clean the crown, reduce long branches and support
included branch connections by cabling but I don't feel that would
greatly reduce the risk of occasional limb breakage.  That said, have
any of you condemned a tree based on its species characteristics like
these poplars?
This problem comes up fairly frequently here and it usually leads to
tree removal but in this case all parties involved can't come to an
agreement.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
--
Vince Rutter, RPF
ISA Certified Arborist
www.rutterurbanforestry.ca<http://www.rutterurbanforestry.ca>
807-627-6201
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End of CANUFNET Digest, Vol 66, Issue 8
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